.

Kinnelon Teachers Take 'High Road,' Union Rep Says

NJEA representative said no organized effort is in place for teachers to only offer extra help on Thursdays.

Kinnelon, route: {:controller=>"listings", :action=>"show", :id=>"kinnelon-borough-5"} --> teachers grades 6 through 12 who are only offering extra help after school on Thursdays are not part of an organized effort, according to New Jersey Education Association Field Representative Vickie Walsh, who is representing the Kinnelon Education Association (KEA) meeting, several board members to help with the

BULLONEY September 18, 2012 at 01:44 PM
The Union must think the taxpayers are stupid. The Union wants us to believe the propaganda they put out there. The truth is it takes two to Tango. Both sides have the right to negotiate the best deal possible. The Union would like the Parents to believe that the Union wants to settle. I am sure the BOE has presented a proposal that if the KEA accepted the contract would be settled immediatetly.
BULLONEY September 18, 2012 at 01:45 PM
(continued)The Union would like us to believe their actions are purely coincidental. The only party taking the high road here is the BOE. They are not doling out consequences for showing up late, they are not boycotting graduation or walking out on award ceremonies they have just simply advocated for our children by expressing their concern about the organized movement regarding extra help all being on the same day. So if a student needs extra help in Math and English the student must choose between the 2 and wait for the next week for the other. A little advice for the Union, act like professionals and the community will support your efforts and it can lead to a meaningful resolution to your differences. Continue to act like thugs and you will lose the support of the community. Parents make up the majority of the taxpayers and I can assure you we just do not have the money to continue paying for the outrageous contract. And yes I have read it and I can not believe the deal you had cut previously. If the BOE would put the full contract on the website the parents would rally even harder for the BOE. The Union has enjoyed lavish pay and benefits and perks we can no longer afford. In stead of the Union saying Thank you for all the years of support they move to hurt our children so the parents will cave in and pressure the BOE to settle.
BULLONEY September 18, 2012 at 01:45 PM
(Continued)That is not happening as we are in a different ERA and the old school union tactics will no longer work. We just can not afford the cost any more. So if you want to settle take the offer on the table and say thank you, for those teachers who arent happy go teach in an abbot district.
Patch Adams September 18, 2012 at 03:20 PM
"John" you're a moron. If you think teachers, especially those who were part of a district ranked 5th in the state, have no skill, craft, or dedication you need to start visiting a school or subbing. Secondly, how can some of you just keep pushing settle when none of you or even the BOE itself, knows the details of the contract or concessions made by teachers. You need to realize you're not just negotiating with your own town but surrounding towns as well. In the private sector if your company's rival is offering better salary, benefits, etc, would you put your application in? Teaching is the same way and what's happening already is teachers, in your top 5 district, are sending out their applications. This BOE is dragging their feet cause they know the teachers will continue to go on doing everything the same. Now the union throws them a little hiccup, after over 15 months of no contract, and now there's a problem? This BOE is taking the approach if it's not broke don't fix it. Wake up people. The BOE wants much harsher restrictions than Christie himself. And if your school ranking goes down so does your property value. Um, what?
Tyler September 18, 2012 at 05:57 PM
The reason the school was ranked number 5 is based on test scores. The test scores have jumped because one of Kinnelon's best teachers, Mr. Jackson, started a tutoring firm that specializes in Kinnelon students. So laughable that the KHS administration take credit for this.
LOL September 18, 2012 at 06:20 PM
Tyler, that is the funniest Joke I have ever heard! LMAO!
Cathy Gurbisz September 18, 2012 at 06:40 PM
Wouldn't it be great if the education association's contract was required to be posted on every district website. At least then we would all have the facts to make our own educated decision. With 50-60% of taxes supporting education and benefits coming in around 35-40% of salary this is one document we should all have. It is required to post the Superintendents and Business Administrator's contract. Many districts post their budget. Why not post the document that has the greatest impact and influences the budget the most. Every parent should ask for a copy of the teachers contract and get educated.
LOL September 18, 2012 at 07:01 PM
I agree with Cathy. Kinnelon BOE please post the contract on the district website. In this day of technology it seems like it should be done in the interest of transparency. Maybe the Patch can get a copy and post it. this way we can see what they really get over and above their current salaries. It would also be great if the BOE could post the Salary stipends and extra pay all the teachers get in this district. Come on BOE post it so we can all see it.
Patch Adams September 18, 2012 at 07:38 PM
There are several websites that post all public employee positions salaries. What you won't find are the proposals that the BOE is proposing because those are all in negotiation meetings. I do now that this BOE is being overly aggressive in their concessions and seeking much harsher fees than what Christie wants. Again, you may or may not agree with these concessions but you must keep in mind that you are also negotiating with neighborhood towns. To attract the best teacher you must have an appealing contract. If you are okay with these great teachers leaving town than so be it. The reason you have 50%+ of taxes going to education is because of the flat out number of teachers that are employed. And I see there is enough money to do plenty of athletic renovations. There's probably a couple hundred teachers compared to an estimated what 30-40 cops in town?
Truthsayer September 18, 2012 at 09:14 PM
In all honesty Kinnelon teachers are paid far in excess of neighboring towns. In fact the salaries are at the top of the scale. So where can they go for more money? Not around here. Let them go if the grass is greener. There are plenty of quality teachers around that would love the chance to work in our district. That's called a free market. These teachers with tenure can whine all they want they won't leave the current pay rate and risk losing tenure. Get real. Go BOE!
Train Wreck September 18, 2012 at 09:38 PM
There you go again, pinning one occupation against another. If you actually LIVED in Kinnelon, you would realize that there are not nearly enough police to cover our area plus the drugs coming down Rt 23. Or maybe you prefer the kids are drugged out so you don't have to actually teach them? If the teachers have it so bad in Kinnelon, there's the door, try to get a job in the top 4. News flash! The reason we pay so much taxes in Kinnelon is because we have no ratables as far as the school tax it's because the parents have blindly voted the budget in year after year, supporting the school system aka: teachers. The money train has crashed! Start negotiating reasonably!
NJ Taxpayer September 19, 2012 at 01:44 AM
Just wondering if this is a direct correlation or not, but it seems all of those who are opposed to the teachers are posting messages between the hours of 8-6 which means: 1. They are retired and hate the new educational system 2. They have no job and hate the educational system all together 3. They have a job and are very unprofessional by taking "work time" to post messages on a message board 4. They are stay at home parents, have finished all the house work for the day and need to vent 5. They are just bored Americans who have everything they will ever need and never had to work a day in their lives How about getting involved in the community in which they want changed instead of posting hateful messages on here? How about you volunteer your time, help out in after school programs, take a college course, or have family dinner together. Maybe those are the things that need to change in the community and not the teacher's contracts. This communities sense of "entitlement" is starting to show.
Patch Adams September 19, 2012 at 01:50 AM
Yes there's definitely not enough cops to give tickets for rolling through a stop sign or breaking up high school parties. I was able to google within a matter of 3 minutes mountain average salary which looks much nicer than kinnelon. Lastly, if you have an issue with me comparing 1 occupation to another than how about we stop comparing the private to the public sector. You have no clue whether or not I live in the town. I volunteer for a lot in this town, I'm cutting that out now, charging for everything now thanks.
Night shift September 19, 2012 at 11:51 AM
Patch, I think you meant Mountain Lakes. If you ARE a teacher, there's the door, but I doubt you can get a job there, too much tenure invested in Ktown? Regarding your "volunteer" time, a leopard doesn't change their spots.... Either you volunteer for your love of something, get personal satisfaction and really feel you can make a difference or you do it for the accolades and are on a powertrip, and you're not doing it because you WANT to. If it is the former, you wouldn't be so quick to give it up. NJ taxpayer,based on your savvy analysis and times posted, you could be the same person as Patch, you sound like a typical democrat-bob and weave, resort to name calling, issue personal attacks, but don't address the issues. To both of you, if you ARE teachers, you should put as much effort into your lesson plans than analyzing posters online. Besides, don't you have tests to grade, papers to correct, supplies to buy, etc. in your evenings? NJ, here's one for you, maybe they work nights or two jobs just to pay your salary and benefits. ;)
John September 19, 2012 at 01:23 PM
PATCH can use some assistance on spelling and grammar. Should also check the definition of volunteer, as was explained correctly by Night Shift.
Robin September 19, 2012 at 09:49 PM
Salaries are all available (for 2010-11 yr) on-line at: http://php.app.com/edstaff/search.php The contract is apparently a big secret. In order to get that we have to fill out an "Open Public Records Request" and pay a fee to get it copied.
Robin September 19, 2012 at 09:55 PM
Actually I was also able to find a copy of the teachers contract on-line at: http://www.perc.state.nj.us/publicsectorcontracts.nsf/e20dbee295d1a49c85256f2b00591946/744a51d9f947091a8525772200527674?OpenDocument
NJ Taxpayer September 19, 2012 at 10:50 PM
I hate to burst your bubble, but I am neither Patch nor a teacher. Also, I do not affiliate myself with any political party. I simply vote on the issues and what I think is best for the country, county, and town as a whole. I have not addressed the issues? I think you need to reread what I wrote. I suggest to get involved in the community that is collapsing and help out. If those people are working nights they would most likely be union workers working at factories, grocery stores, or cleaning companies. That being the case they would be in FAVOR of the Unions and the debate, but alas they are not. I agree with your "volunteer" comment, but why would I "volunteer" for a community or town that is against me? If I was bashed day in and day out for doing my job and following my CONTRACT to a T, then why would I go the extra mile? What for? I can bet you that these teachers USED to go the extra mile all the time, but that only got them in the situation they are in now. Teachers are not cut throat business people who can do deals and make sales. No they are at the mercy of the Board and the Union. I think the teachers are the middle men/women here. It's not their fault. It's the timing of the recession, the Board members who are in power, and the view of Unions that is all coming together. The perfect storm if you will..but how is that the TEACHERS FAULT? Someone explain that to me and maybe I'll change my mind.
Patch Adams September 20, 2012 at 01:02 AM
Well I can see that John is either unemployed or posting on this website from work. 9:23 huh? Shouldn't you be doing other things on your computer. Work maybe? Sorry couldn't get on this website cause during my prep I had to sit with 2 principals and explain the fight that I BROKE UP and how my coworker has scratches all over his arm due to him breaking up the fight too. Then he was made fun of by the kids for not being strong enough to break 2 kids apart. Should I just let the kids kill each other next time and stick to my contract? No I'm not a teacher in Kinnelon but I am very close with many of them. I am an inner city high school teacher, just about all of you would cry after 1 day at my job. All I'm saying is get the FULL story on this contract issue. The BOE is going into meetings UNAWARE of what the union has offered. Their negotiators weren't even relaying information back to the board. There's many things that the teachers and most union members can't say because in their contract is a gag order with the media. The BOE loves the fact that they're basically the only side that can get any press. I will tell you from a good source that a board member has been quoted saying they plan on publicly bashing teachers and waiting them out long enough until they fold and give in. Nice.
Arguing with a clown September 20, 2012 at 10:58 AM
Patch, it sounds like you have many unresolved issues that need to be addressed. There are many good professionals out there, I can understand inner city teachers would suffer from PTSD. I'm sure that your healthcare plan would cover it. If you are truly in the inner city, you would think the Ktown teachers are in Shang-ri -la. I'm sorry I don't believe "good sources" unless the "source" would go on the record. You've lost your credibility.
Arguing with a clown September 20, 2012 at 11:06 AM
Nj taxpayer, I don't get it. You are not a teacher, but you want to quit volunteering because you feel unappreciated by the community? As far as teachers being in the middle? They can do something, if the union is at fault, stand up to them. Your perfect storm is the fact that the taxpayers can't afford it!! But the teachers still follow their union's orders , like drones, and ask for more, more, more and there isn't anymore to give. When times were good, Kinnelon taxpayers voted budgets in and supported the teachers, unquestioning. Now, with the recession, we don't have it. Instead of saying thank you for supporting us all those years, they choose to protest at back to school night, walk out on award ceremonies, and cut extra help!
Robin September 20, 2012 at 11:33 AM
To be fair the "gag order" with the media applies to BOTH the BOE and the KEA; it is in the contract (posted above) Article II - section E. "Only joint or agreed upon press releases regarding negotiations will be made.". We have no way of knowing whether it was the KEA or the BOE that wanted that in the contract!
Patch Adams September 20, 2012 at 02:42 PM
Clown, apparently your reading comprehension needs a little work. If you look back I said that educators have a gag order in their contract. Secondly, what unresolved issues are you speaking of. Lastly, if the teaching gig is so nice why didn't you go into teaching. Please provide excuse below.............
BE Strong September 20, 2012 at 08:35 PM
Kinnelon Teachers, I know most of you ( The real Professionals) do not agree with the recent organized efforts handed down by you UNION leadership and do not drink the Koolaide. Unfortunately you are intimidated by the UNION Leadership. I urge the true professionals to not participate with the UNION tactics. We all try to teach our children to stand up for what is right. You all have an opportunity to take advantage of a teachable moment. We tell our children to stand up to the bullies and to protect those being bullied. Show this community you are above this and do what is right. Do not picket demanding a settlement. If the leadership wants you to do it, tell them to. Show the leadership at the UNION how the high road is taken. This is the time for the great teachers in our community to shine and show the parents that you are real professionals that care about our children. If not go ahead do the extra help on Thursdays, don't participate in the many events and celebrations of our children's accomplishments, leave at the bell and do all the things the union wants you to do. The UNION is there to protect the worst teachers and we have many . Challenge yourselves to separate yourselves from the peer pressure and do what is right. You have the chance to do that now. Do not and the community will see all the teachers as the same the Massive teachers UNION doing what ever it takes to get what they want regardless of the cost and whom they hurt in the process.
GoKEA September 21, 2012 at 12:03 AM
I am sick and tired of the whining by the parents about taxes. Their children drive better cars than us teachers, can afford manicures and every toy imagined Teachers in our district are underpaid. So what if we only hold extra help on Thursdays. That's with in our contract. If you want to change that then let the board negotiate iit. We deserve better pay and benefits and if it means the BOE has to lay off some younger inexperienced teachers to do it, the. So be it. We have the right to picket and voice out opinions. Get used to it.
NJ Taxpayer September 21, 2012 at 08:55 AM
I find it hard to believe that any of you will do this, but here goes. The next Board of Education meeting is on September 27, 2012 at 8:00pm in the Kinnelon High School Auditorium. I think you should go and see what a Board meeting really is. You should go and voice your opinion. I have been to meetings before and many of the teachers are there. You can ask them yourselves in person about the situation.
Patch Adams September 21, 2012 at 11:56 AM
GoKEA you bring up a huge point. The minimal increase in tax is a real deal breaker while little Johnny rolls into school with a brand new license and fresh BMW off the lot. The parents also don't help their cause by storming into the main or central office every time little Suzy gets an A- instead of an A. I've heard plenty of shameful stories. Let the kids grow up and handle themselves. The emails, phone calls, and meetings some of these teachers need to go through are often obnoxious. The teachers in this town are forced to be on-call 24/7 because the emails & phone calls coming from parents request immediate responses.
Yes, I teach in Kinnelon September 23, 2012 at 12:56 PM
We all need to remember where the Kinnelon taxpayer's money goes. The cost of educating a student in Kinnelon is $13,000/year. The cost per student in the inner city schools can easily be $25,000. Where do you think that money comes from? The Kinnelons across the state.
taxpayer October 01, 2012 at 12:34 AM
Fire them all? Let's remember how well replacement refs did. And remember that housing values are tied to school quality. I can't wait to see what's in the fact finding.
TAXburden October 01, 2012 at 12:44 PM
Fact finding fact finding. Who cares? Unions are there for the worst teachers. Here it is, 2 percent cap on taxes. So if the union gets an increase that causes taxes to rise above the 2%, what happens? We remove teachers based on seniority not based on quality. Result we have less teachers and more students in the class rooms. Who gets hurt all of us. You can not get blood from a stone. Those good teachers who are lower on the seniority tree get cut, bad teachers higher up get rewarded and our children get the shaft. Wake up!

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